Engaging children with testimonies of Caribbean migration: part 2
Debbie Bogard explores the development of the ‘interactive listening approach’ in workshops connecting Key Stage 3 learners with oral histories of Caribbean and Windrush Generation migrants.
22 April 2025
Blog series Sound and vision
Author Debbie Bogard, Learning Facilitator in the British Library's Learning team
Following the integration of the Key Stage Two (KS2; ages 7 – 11) Windrush Voices workshop into the British Library’s core schools programme, members of the Learning Team have been developing a workshop for Key Stage 3 (KS3; ages 11 – 14) learners. This uses a similar framework to the KS2 workshop, using the process of interactive listening to help engage learners with oral testimonies. The three extracts selected for the KS3 workshop are of Vanley Burke, Linton Kwesi Johnson and Andrea Levy, all discussing their experiences of school.
Vanley Burke on going to school in Britain as a child (BL reference C459/217)
This audio is embedded from SoundCloud and requires cookies to function. To view this content, please enable analytics and marketing cookies using the cookies opt-in at the bottom of your screen.
Transcript
INTERVIEWER: So did you leave school?
VANLEY: No, I went to school for two years here. I went to Gower Street Boys School um.. which is in Lozells, and they closed the school after we left, I wonder why? (both laugh) Yeah we went, we spent two years at school here. School was fine but it was, it was… there was a lot of racism at the time, you know. Not just in general but in education and the way it was delivered as well.
INTERVIEWER: What sort of thing?
VANLEY: I mean, well, you had things like English for immigrants, you know, which really didn't get you anywhere. We'd have things like, again we used to have to show our hands at lunchtime, and you know, the teacher would say, oh go on I wouldn't know if it's clean anyway. You get the name calling. It was pretty, it was pretty Wild West days.
[END OF RECORDING – 00:01:00]
Linton Kwesi Johnson, 'aspirations above my station' (BL reference C1276/60)
This audio is embedded from SoundCloud and requires cookies to function. To view this content, please enable analytics and marketing cookies using the cookies opt-in at the bottom of your screen.
Transcript
We all wanted to make something of our lives, cos we didn’t come to this country to... in Jamaica we say Me no come here for cow, me for come here to drink milk. So we didn’t come here to loaf, you know we all wanted to make something of our lives and try and get a good education. And me, well I always loved learning, you know, I had a very inquisitive mind, I wanted to know, I had this thirst for knowledge. So I can’t speak for anybody else, but for myself I wanted to become an accountant because I loved the figures. I was good at it, at school, and I was good at economics and commerce. I liked the feeling that you got when your books balanced. And later on, when I started to write verse, I realised that you know once you struggle with a poem and then the poem is finished, the same kind of feeling of elation that you get is the same feeling that you get when you’re doing your accounts and your books balance [laughs]. Strange comparison but there you go. Anyway, within the schooling system, with maybe one or two exceptions, it was understood, it was the general understanding, I think, that boys from the Caribbean, from working class backgrounds, would do a similar job as their parents. Work in the factories, on the buses, in the hospitals and so on. So me wanting to become an accountant, I was having aspirations above my station, or at least that’s the impression I got from the careers teacher. I guess I am a second generation immigrant child, you know, what am I talking about, accountant? (laughs) The idea must have sounded absurd to him.
[END OF RECORDING – 00:02:02]
Andrea Levy on experiences at school (BL reference C1276/59)
This audio is embedded from SoundCloud and requires cookies to function. To view this content, please enable analytics and marketing cookies using the cookies opt-in at the bottom of your screen.
Transcript
It used to amaze me. I was in this B stream and it used to amaze me. We do we do exams, religious education or whatever, and I'd come top and I I'd come top. I just couldn't believe it, you know, I just because, you know, I just couldn't believe that I could come - what were they doing? You know, I mean, I was not working hard, but I was sort of top of this class. I don't, I still don't quite know how that you know, I thought what's happening? So erm, so I just I enjoyed it. I had great friends, we we had a good laugh and you know, we just, there no other black kids in my class. Indian I think there was one Indian girl and there was one girl from Mauritius. And I had straight hair at the time, I'd had my mum got our hair straightened when we were sort of old enough to sit under a hair dryer. So I had straight hair and just didn't ever mention Jamaica or anything but erm, just great friends. Great. Just I just really enjoyed it. You know, I enjoyed my lessons except maths, I enjoyed everything and I was, I was, outgoing and you know.
[END OF RECORDING – 00:01:20]
The rationale for this selection is that the theme is immediately relevant to the listeners, providing a point of connection and resonance with learners who are a similar age to the recollections in the clips. Before listening, learners are told some contextual information about the interviewees and for each one, asked to consider what they are expecting to hear. Following each clip, learners have a chance to reflect, thinking about what they heard, whether it was in line with their expectations, and whether there were any surprises, both in what was said and what was omitted. They are then encouraged to consider what follow-up questions they would like to have asked, further contributing to the interactive dynamic.
An additional aspect introduced for this workshop is to draw out similarities and differences between the extracts. This is a useful technique as it helps create an analytical framework and focused way of listening to and thinking about the extracts. On the surface, there are more obvious similarities between the experiences of Vanley Burke and Linton Kwesi Johnson, both encountering a system that had low expectations of Caribbean working-class Black boys. Vanley reflects that ‘it was like the wild west’ whilst Linton recalls being told by a careers advisor that he had ‘aspirations above his station.’
Vanley Burke. Image Courtesy of Birmingham Post & Mail, 2014
On first listen, Andrea Levy’s account provides clear differences, with her experiences sounding much more positive. At one point, she laughs as she recalls doing well in tests:
‘I’d come top and I just couldn’t believe it you know I just because you know I just couldn’t believe that I could I mean what were they doing you know I was not working hard…I I don’t I still don’t know quite you know, I thought, what’s happening?’
Andrea speaks with a British accent (she was born in England in 1956), whilst Linton and Vanley both have Jamaican accents (arriving from Jamaica in 1963 and 1965 respectively), potentially further contributing to their outsider status and feelings of estrangement within the British education system. Hearing accents also speaks to the importance of playing the clips, as this would go undetected if the recordings were being read in class from a transcript rather than directly listened to. For some learners and teachers, hearing Jamaican accents might be simultaneously familiar to their own lives and unexpected in a classroom setting. Thus, oral history has the potential to help bring connections and meanings to learners’ lives, legitimising voices and experiences that, until relatively recently, haven’t always been visible in the historical record.
There are also some areas of similarity that might not be immediately obvious. Despite Andrea’s cheerful exterior, there are hints that she was also made to feel like she didn’t belong; for example, when she says ‘there were no other Black kids in my class’ and ‘I just didn’t mention Jamaica or anything.’ These examples suggest a connection to Vanley and Linton in that she also felt like an outsider but was more able to assimilate to fit in. Another similarity between Linton and Andrea can also be drawn in their deep appreciation of learning. Both discuss the subjects they enjoy, with Linton reflecting: ‘I always loved learning you know I had a very inquisitive mind I wanted to know. I had a thirst for knowledge.’
Linton Kwesi Johnson. Image credit: Maria Nunes Photography
This is important as it suggests that whilst their external treatment and experiences were different, there is a clear connection in their internal attitude to and relationship with learning. This is underpinned in the first part of Linton’s extract when he says: ‘We all wanted to make something of our lives.’ A further similarity is that all three of the interviewees went on to have successful careers in the arts, with experiences of Caribbean migration playing a key role in Linton Kwesi Johnson’s poetry, Andrea Levy’s novels and Vanley Burke’s photography.
Drawing out similarities and differences between extracts offers the chance to think more deeply about the recordings and find connections that might otherwise go unnoticed. The sheer number of items available at the British Library means there is sometimes a danger of trying to cover as much ground as possible through listening to as a wide range of recordings as possible. I would argue that less is more, and that there is deep educational value in listening to a small well-selected range of clips.
It is important to note that the clips used are selected from a much longer interview. Andrea, Vanley and Linton recorded multi-session in-depth life story interviews for the British Library. This means that the clip doesn’t necessarily represent the entirety of their descriptions of their school and childhood experiences and it is entirely feasible that other parts of the interview could potentially contradict what is being said in these extracts.
Similarly, different people, including potentially Linton, Andrea and Vanley themselves, might well interpret the clip in different ways, especially if they have heard more expanded sections of the interview. This is not to diminish the experience of listening to a shorter edited clip. Rather, being mindful of the nature of the life story approach, with its focus on a full story as opposed to a single historical event, can make for richer conversations with learners, leading to a deeper understanding of different types of oral history.
Beyond the workshop, there are multiple opportunities to engage learners with the Library's Sound Archive, suggesting the applicability of oral history in the classroom for cross-curricular use. For example, in addition to English and History students studying aspects of migration and Empire through literature and sources, Photography students might want to explore Vanley Burke’s work and consider the extent to which his school experiences influenced his photography, or Politics and Citizenship students might want to consider the connection between art and activism.
Similarly, Sociology students might want to use the oral testimonies to examine ethnicity and achievement in relation to education, also drawing on other items in the British Library’s collection such as the work of Beryl Gilroy. Students studying for an Extended Project Qualification or Higher Project Qualification (student-driven research projects) might want to incorporate oral testimonies to help drive their enquiry question, strengthening their research skills and gaining confidence in handling sources within an archive.
Ultimately, this workshop and the selected recordings provide an excellent opportunity to engage learners with aspects of the collection and encourage wider engagement with audio testimony and sounds from the British Library to the classroom.
Thank you to all those involved in developing this work: members of the Learning Team at the British Library, Mary Stewart (Lead Curator, Oral History), and, crucially, to the interviewees themselves: Andrea Levy and Linton Kwesi Johnson (interviewed by Sarah O’Reilly for Authors’ Lives, 2014 – 15) and Vanley Burke (interviewed by Shirley Read for An Oral History of British Photography, 2014)
This blog is part of our sound and vision blog series, which highlights the work of our curators, recent acquisitions, digitisation efforts, and collaborations beyond the Library.
It showcases the sound archive’s remarkably diverse collections, spanning from the earliest recordings to born-digital material, and everything in between.